[MUSIC PLAYING – “Merci Kylian” by Laurent Dubois]
Ron Krabill: Hello, and welcome to episode 7 of the Global Sport Lab podcast. I’m Ron Krabill, and I’m your host, as well as the director of the Global Sport Lab and a professor of Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences at the University of Washington Bothell. Listen to the end for a more detailed description of the Global Sport Lab. But for now, let me just say that we would love for you to connect with us at the lab. You can find us on the web or at globalsportlab@uw.edu. Today, we are coming to you, once again, from the stunning campus of the African Leadership University in Kigali, the capital of Rwanda. Our guest today is Nikita Gicanda, founder of local champions, and as of just three weeks ago, the newly elected commissioner of women’s football for Rwanda. I first met Nikita a year and a half ago here in Kigali, and was immediately taken by her vision for women’s and girls empowerment through sport. And to see local champions thriving just 18 months, short months later is nothing short of remarkable. Thanks so much for being with us today, Nikita.
Nikita Gicanda: Thank you too.
Ron: We’re also joined today by my student, Leanne Arabi, who has been part of the global sport labs study abroad program here in Rwanda the past month, studying leadership and nation building through sports development, global health, human rights, and ecotourism. Leanne, can you tell us a bit more about yourself?
Leanne Arabi: Of course. So this is my second year at University of Washington, and I’m studying mathematics. But I applied to come to the study abroad program mainly because I’m very interested in development and interested in the location, like Rwanda. I would say I was very curious about East Africa in general, and there wasn’t that many options. But when I saw that Rwanda was one of the options, I was immediately very interested. And the topic that I focused on this study abroad was sports development, and that’s mostly because I was very interested in the idea of using sports as a way to develop a nation and also sport politics in general.
Ron: Fantastic. Thank you so much, Leanne. I thought we could start out today by setting the scene a bit. One of our first days in Kigali, we attended the finals of the Gicanda Invitational, a national Under-15 girls football tournament run by local champions and held at Kigali Pelé stadium here in town. It was an absolutely remarkable experience. There were literally hundreds of girls playing 5 by 5 football across multiple pitches. A DJ was spinning a fantastic playlist throughout. There were three outstanding performances by well-known Rwandan musicians, and it just felt like such a vibrant coming together of community, girls empowerment, and sport. So Nikita, I’m wondering if you can say more about your vision specifically for the Gicanda Invitational and a culminating event like that one.
Nikita: 100 percent. And thank you guys for attending. I think what we wanted to do was address the lack of visibility for girls playing football or in sport generally. And then the secondary mission was about empowering grassroots organizations. We see Rwanda now hosting large scale events like the BAL [Basketball African League], but we don’t always see that translate into sport performance or development, especially for girls.
We said, OK, let’s use our methodology that we use in the UK and other places, which starts with going to those where they are. So rather than trying to invite people always to come to Kigali, we started the tournament by going to every district and calling up every person that has ever worked with girls to see where they play. And then we went as grassroots, as you can imagine, and we’re on the road for 31 days. We went to the 27 districts. From there, one winning team or one winning center was invited to Kigali. And by doing that, they received the respect that we actually went to visit them which I think is rare. We were able to scout talent, which then was scouted by the national team as well. You see that translating into contracts now for the first and the second division. And then we also offered a cash prize to every winning team, and the winning girl got a four-year scholarship to a very good school– from the best out of the whole tournament. The idea was kind of OK, how can we bring fans out? We need to intertwine art and culture. We spoke to artists that are our friends and empowered the youth and begged them to do this. And then we said, OK, how can we make this even look nice and smart? We did the collaborative brand launch with Maasai Mara. And then the third thing was just about showing that girls can play in a stadium. We all remember–I remember clearly the first time I played in a stadium. You’re like, I made it, I’m good. And then making sure that the parents come out to see them. So, by going to the grassroot organizations, we’re playing in the middle of pitches in the middle of towns. And then we made sure that any mom that stopped and paused and was like, what’s going on here? We gave her a VIP plastic chair so that then moms can think, if my girl plays football or sport, we can also benefit. And we just– it was all about those development aspects and elements. So even if we saw a boy that was impoverished to some extent, we made sure one boy from each center got new clothes and new shoes so that the boys also feel like they can benefit when the girls benefit. And hopefully, that also translates to health and safety and security by talking to all the men and being educational about it that they shouldn’t abuse their sisters or their daughters or whatever. So that’s the kind of thinking. Does that answer the question?
Ron: Totally, it’s amazing. And I mean, being part of that event was just incredible. It was one of the first things our group of students did. I should say, for background, that the program was half students from the University of Washington, half students from the African Leadership University, and it was just such a vibrant scene. I mean, it really had– the vibe was incredible. I don’t even know how else to describe it. And it totally fits with exactly what you’re saying.
Nikita: It was crazy for us because, honestly, we also, like, our local champions, we only hire those with lived experience. So the entire team, barring two individuals– but the entire management team, let’s say, are players that are currently retiring. We’ve been on this journey of trying to train them as managers but also give them the responsibility. I think, sometimes, women have the coaching license, and on paper, they’re the head coach, but then they’re actually treated like the assistant coach. So here, we spent a lot of time the last 18 months, like you said, just making sure like, no, you’re making this decision with me. Like, it’s not me making a decision, and there’s no man that’s going to come in and take your place no matter what happens. Like, the only two men that are in the team is my cousin and who is our fixer. And then another guy who helps us drive, and he’s a good friend of ours. But the women are in charge.
So on that day, I was being elected at the federation, I was not even there to help them set up, for example, which to me sounds crazy. It’s a massive, massive event and culmination of all our hard work. And then I just had to make sure I trust them, which I did. So that was the crazy part because I was dealing with federation things and bureaucracy. And then on the other hand, we have a totally new model happening where we have to trust women to lead, which was super cool. Thank you guys for coming because it made a cool atmosphere as well.
Ron: It was fantastic. Wouldn’t miss it again, and we’d love to come back for another time.
Nikita: Yes, we have to do it every year.
Leanne: It was definitely unlike any other sports event that I’ve ever been to. I’ve been to professional games and stuff. But this one is so much more fun. And I think definitely the community aspect, seeing people watching but being just as excited as the players, that was awesome.
Nikita: I think it’s something that will bring back in the federation now, but I don’t think there’s been a lot of emphasis on grassroots or making a sport a festival. Making it actually attractive requires some effort. It’s not just about the product because these girls can play beautiful football. But if nobody sees it, it’s pointless. So that was cool to see it all come together.
Ron: And I think there is a different vibe sometimes with women’s football in terms of it’s less of a– losing the words for right now – but it has such a fantastic vibe. And you saw that everything was coming together in a really beautiful way. It was maybe a little less of — trying to think of the appropriate language, it’s not coming to me – testosterone poisoning.
Nikita: Yeah. It’s funny because I watched it in the UK– because I’ve consulted to the Federation, but also the Olympic Park and stuff, and I play football. I’ve played it at every level. And so you watched the UK transform in the last 10 years, right? It was like America was the only one caring about women’s football. And then the Federation put a good strategy in place. They put a good emphasis on it. And now, I have friends, like guys, who never wanted to go to watch football because it was like the aggressive testosterone– I don’t know the word for it. And now, when there’s a women’s game, they all go because it’s just a different culture. And I think that’s what we need to keep in mind. I always try and tell people here, we don’t need to follow the men’s league. We need to create a brand and a culture for the women’s game. And we need to use technology and innovation to improve the women’s game rather than just following what the men are doing. Because now, you have people saying, OK, but the men are receiving this. And I’m like, that’s cool, but that’s the men’s side. If we just follow their lead, we’re not going to get anywhere either. We can create a fun atmosphere, like, maybe we get an artist at every game. I don’t know how we’re going to do it. But if there’s any artists that want to volunteer, please call me.
Ron: And there’s a real parallel to Rwanda’s overall economic development– the argument that it doesn’t have to follow this Western model that’s out there as if that’s the only model. And there’s a total parallel there that women’s football can develop on its own in its own unique way, with its own unique strengths, and doesn’t have to pretend to be something it’s not in order to be fantastic and worth watching.
Nikita: And we need to keep that in mind. We need to have a vision. We need to be pragmatic like we always are as a country. And then we just need to think about things differently. Because honestly, football has this crazy– like you put a ball in any room and adults and kids start playing. People are like, oh, you’re obsessed with football. I am. But it also just like, see what it can do economically. It can– like, if we create one good athlete, that creates 100 jobs. Like, one successful female or women or girl, export of talent, can create a hundred jobs as well. But then also the joy it just creates, it’s just insane.
We had coaches fighting in the district zones. It was insane. I’m like, why are you fighting? It’s like an Under-15. And they’re like, oh, we disagree with the goal. And I’m brought this ref. Why are we fighting here? It’s a bad role modeling for the girls. But at the same time, you see the passion that it creates. And you’re like, OK, that’s a fine line, we need to balance. But it’s super powerful.
Ron: Absolutely.
Leanne: What do you hope that local champions will do? I looked at the website and it seems like it’s more than just football and tournaments.
Nikita: Football is new to the game. Football’s the passion project. But also, I see the economic opportunity. So local champions exist to empower women and youth through sport and enterprise. In the UK, we are largely focused on business support programs for young people from structurally ignored– people who have not received the support they should have received to be part of the economy.
We’re largely focused on inclusive innovation and economies, which translates– like, what does that mean? It’s a bunch of words I’m using. What does that actually mean is that we run a yearly enterprise program. It’s called the Young Entrepreneurs Alliance. It’s like a three to six-month program funded by development companies, where they get weekly masterclasses, mentoring, and then they pitch for money at the end for up to 5k [UK] pounds. That has been going on for five years now. And then in the UK, we focus on sport for development rather than sport development. What I mean by that is we have a program where we give free football coaching to mothers and childcare. The project started because some of my friends got pregnant during COVID. And then I never saw them again. And then people were getting fat and unhealthy and poverty was getting worse. I was like, OK, Sport England, let me pilot this. If we give free childcare, can we get players — young mothers– back into sport? What we found is that a lot of people that never played sport come because they just want an hour without their kid, which is super cool. They’re like, I just need freedom of mind. We do stuff like that. We pilot things like how can you improve access? How can you improve inclusion in sport? And specifically, around mothers and women.
But now, with the Rwandan Local Champions Africa focusing on just female footballers, basically, we use football as a means for social emotional learning. And then economic opportunity. My vision, if that’s what you’re really asking me, is that we get our courses in the UK accredited, and then we build an actual academy here. With land, we get a pitch, we get an innovation hub like this, a school, and then kids get subsidized, basically attend, and then they become world class athletes and thinkers. That’s the kind of idea, like, how can we combine everything we’ve been doing for 5 to 10 years that are interventions that connect, but sometimes don’t, into one holistic kind of long-term program that is a center of excellence in both community-led and grassroots-orientated. We really focus on the bottom up, which is something you learn along the way. When you don’t co-create, things don’t last. So you’re like let me start this properly. So that’s where we’re going, I think.
Leanne: That’s very cool. That’s very interesting. We talked also a lot about how social movements, the importance of them being built from smaller communities and then for them to get to the top level. But that’s very interesting that you said it’s through your work that you figured that out.
Nikita: It’s a hard lesson I learned. Like in life– so the first person I ever managed– I was a micro-manager and I apologized. It was terrible. But you learn it. You’re like, this doesn’t work. You have to trust people. And now, I do pride myself on being a very good manager in the last 18 months or so. I’ve had to learn how to not try and do something myself or get too annoyed, just wait and let them learn and lead by example. And then on the co-creation side of things and community power, I managed meanwhile incubation space once meanwhile being it was like when developers buy land, sometimes, they don’t develop immediately. So for 20 or 30 years, it can go untouched and this area can just become vacant and a crime increases. There’s a lot of issues with it. Someone once gave me a street of these spaces that had been excluded and isolated for a very long time. The area, the people that lived there hated anyone that came in, basically, because they were always abused, technically. They gave me a street of shops to incubate businesses and ideas. And then I found I could move super quickly, like rapid prototype, got a bunch of people to try new things. But you’re always fighting community organizers. You’re always fighting the government or someone or trying to take sides because you just want to get something done in my old way of thinking. I had to balance. That taught me a lot. It was like, I can wrap it, prototype, and show people the work of it. But also I need to really actively listen and create space and meaningfully engaged so that local people are embedded in the decisions, not just new people trying new things. And so that was a really good project that really taught me about balancing bureaucracy and community power and entrepreneurship, because you need to move quickly as well. Don’t get me wrong. I am a believer in rapid prototyping and then learning and improving. Don’t sit on your ideas too long. But then, you need to bring people with you to make it last. I can’t lead things forever. And now, I’m even in the bureaucracy side of things with the Federation. So that’s an interesting mix because I’m used to being the maverick, upsetting the bureaucracy, and now I’m part of it.
Ron: Welcome to the machine.
Nikita: Yeah, which is super interesting to try and figure out. But if we can bring a little bit of innovation into bureaucracy, then we also have longer potential for impact because we have access to understanding the system and the infrastructure available to us. So yeah. Does that answer your question?
Leanne: That’s perfect.
Ron: That’s fantastic. I should maybe just pause and say, it does sound like there’s a big party outside the room. If any of that’s getting picked up on the audio, that’s just because it’s a very vibrant campus with a lot going on.
Ron: I was going to ask, one of our research teams yesterday when we were presenting our final work, was talking about the work of human rights groups and thinking about human rights coming from the bottom up, as opposed to just something that the state has to ensure, but also, how do local communities build that from the bottom up, building a culture of respect for human rights on the grassroots community level. So I’m curious to hear how you see local champions fitting into that specifically.
Nikita: It’s very, very good question. And it’s something I play around with a lot. I’m part of this group called the Community Anchors Network in the UK, which is around the Olympic Park. And they are trying to model how 15 organizations can help build Community Power by representing the larger community and forcing stakeholders to work with them. But to be honest, we’ve been trying to write a diagram about it for the last month, because I do the design work sometimes. And it’s just super hard to model it. I think we have to be honest. The way I see local champions is that we follow a strict methodology. And the methodology gives way for us being ethical. It’s not rather we, who, or what, we just help others make champions, if that makes sense. Our methodology is, essentially, if I can even remember it, is that we listen first. We don’t act without listening to those that were trying to help. Today, for example, I can come up with a project and say, OK, I really want to do a podcast about women’s football. But then, when I speak to women footballers, they’ll be like, we don’t care about a podcast. Just make sure we have protein, you know what I mean? So just adapting and making sure– and that might turn out to be a podcast about protein. You know what I mean? I don’t know what it will come to. We start with listening and engaging. And then we go into co-designing with different stakeholders, bringing in academics, bringing in institutions, bringing in whichever stakeholders are involved across the spectrum. And then once we have a project plan or intervention plan, we then hire locally. We don’t do any project without hiring those that are local to the project and those with lived experience. The project that helps mothers with childcare are only footballers with children, for example. This time, the Invitational was only women, girl footballers as well. Our Academy, for example, is only run by women coaches, which then lets you identify the other bottlenecks in any issue. For example, now I’m struggling to find female coaches or women coaches to support our head coach because there’s just not a list or anything, you know what I mean? There’s no– and they haven’t been trained. They haven’t been trusted. So then, once we’ve hired the local team, we then engaged more networks of trust. Then I’ll call out ALU [African Leadership University] or someone like Zaria Court or someone to get involved, and then we see a shift in power. So basically, what I’m saying is I see local champions as a methodology to empower local communities to make an income doing something that they enjoy. I think when communities do things they enjoy and own those interventions, whether that’s practically ownership or owning the delivery of it, they get more passionate and then they have hope. And then there’s a new way to do things. But then, again, we’ll see if that’s successful in 20 years.
Ron: It’s a fantastic vision though. I mean, it really is. It brings together so many elements of thinking about ethical development and that respects human rights, that thinks meaningfully about all these kinds of issues.
Nikita: I have to say, like the other thing that I don’t stress enough and I really should, it’s probably the most important thing, it’s collaboration. It just works. I don’t know why people just don’t do it more. Whether it’s social entrepreneurs or community leaders sharing a building rather than all wanting to own their own. That’s just an ego play. Why do you all need to own your own building? We can share the asset. And if I own the asset, I’m happy to share it because ultimately, everybody benefits. But just bringing in partners that traditionally don’t work together, if you can get them to collaborate, things are so easy. So 50% of the problem with any development, I think, is just a lack of collaboration that usually stems from egos, to be honest with you. It makes no sense, why are people fighting about a chair or something? It’s just genuinely– and I know sometimes there’s money attached, like allowances and whatever. But we need to just see development as a joint mission. Not one person leading, I think.
Leanne: That’s very interesting for sure. And on that topic, you were talking from the bottom up. So how do local champions affect how the government focuses on women’s sports empowerment or development in general?
Nikita: I can’t speak on behalf of the government, but I know that we are at least seen as being proactive and identifying gaps, which is not always the best thing. But I mean, they brought me on board now, so something’s working. But I think the government– we have a fantastic president and we have a fantastic vision for the country in Rwanda. I think you are encouraged to do as much as you can. And then once something is positive, they bring you on board. It’s always difficult, like, I don’t want to be too bureaucratic, but you need to work with government. Whereas in the UK, it’s just a different model. anything we do, a pilot, or whatever, then goes into a sea of documents and reports that maybe someone picks up and is looked at and then some sponsor might enjoy it. Or here, there’s actually a potential to really influence and pivot policy and development based on good work, I think, which, hopefully, Local Champions does do.
Ron: You mentioned, during the presentations yesterday, your appreciation for one of the groups that was highlighting LGBTQ issues, and I wonder if you can talk a little bit about how you see LGBTQ issues playing out in the sports arena in Rwanda. And maybe women’s football in particular.
Nikita: It’s something that I have to admit is sensitive, but I think we need to open up the conversation, to be honest. We need to hear more stories and align with the global openness and movement. But it’s still a complicated issue in Africa generally. And I think as Rwandans, we are ahead of other nations as we tend to be. But I think we should be open and allow everyone to love whoever they love and openly, to be honest with you. I hope it’s something that moves forward in the coming years. We don’t need to force it but we need to at least allow people to be safe in who they are at all times.
Leanne: I’m just curious about whether you see Local Champions as more of a sports development, as in sports helping the country develop, or as a program that develops sports in Rwanda.
Nikita: Very interesting. I think was the chicken and the egg. I think if you do one, the other one happens. I think we are focused on developing athletes. I think we’re actually very focused on the micro level, but that influences the macro. Everything we do to some extent is focused on economic opportunity and social mobility. When we do a project like this, it is really to drive the economic benefits of individuals that are structurally excluded. So that then, when you play into sports, means that we need to create environments where individuals can thrive and then teams can thrive based on that as well, which then requires us to develop the sport if the sport is not at the level it should be. If we go into a super elite atmosphere, then our focus is probably on financial literacy for the individual or legal literacy or stuff like that. It’s just by default we’re doing other things that don’t exist. We have a gym and conditioning program for under 21-year-olds in the first and second division every offseason. So now, we can see those kids that have been on it the last two years. They’re competing at a higher level in the Champions League or in the World Cup qualifiers or whatever. So that then means we’re improving the sport. But really, it was focused on giving the individual an opportunity that they don’t have. It’s like if we do one well, the other one will benefit as well. We need to improve the industry to really see a benefit out of it as well. Because now, we’re seeing social benefits, but we want to see the economic benefits for the individual and the country, because my theory is like, if we can get one of these kids out of the village, they could, for example, there’s a player we helped, we facilitated to get to Tanzania now. She was probably earning, I want to say, the equivalent of like $170 per month here. And now she’s going to get $1,200 per month.
And we made sure that that wasn’t going to go into a fake agent or a manager’s bank account, like, that goes directly to her. We don’t– when we’re involved, we help her manage her brand and her marketing whatever. But by doing that, my hope is that– Zawadia, if you’re listening– my hope is that she’s smart with her money. That means buying a supermarket at home, instead of sending it all to partners or family or whatever here. I’m asking her, let’s invest it in a supermarket or a small grocery shop. Because realistically, if you get that for five years, you can radically transform your surroundings and the neighborhood, which means people get jobs every single day, which leads to country development.
Leanne: That’s very interesting because my group was also one of the sports development groups. And our main idea was making sports more accessible for youth. For example, our group was made up of three students from African Leadership University and then me and one other student from UW. And our views about sport accessibility and how we should go about it were very different in the sense that the African Leadership students, they were thinking about, yes, we will make a pitch, we’ll put cameras for a recruiter’s to see footage so that, oh, this very good athlete. You can see how they’ve been performing since they were very young. Meanwhile, like me and the other UW students, we were thinking more about sports inclusivity as a way for the social benefits of sports, of how it contributes to discipline, resilience, because we hear a lot of stories about how sports have helped kids stay out of trouble, help them make friends, make connections. Me and my friend, we were thinking more about that aspect, versus the African Leadership University students. They were thinking more about definitely the economic value, the jobs that can create, like, oh yeah, we’ll hire people to do this and this, and we can make money off the court by renting it, that way and this way. Which I found very interesting because the whole time, I couldn’t help but think about also in America, we have a huge sports culture, but I also see the negative aspects of that, as well, in the sense that if you bring up a kid and you’re like, OK, this is going to be your sport, you have to excel in it. Eventually, if that kid gets an injury and they can’t play that sport anymore, who are they then if they can’t play the sport? I just found that very interesting, that difference.
Nikita: It’s a good dilemma. I think, ultimately, we’re faced with– a sport is a beautiful thing. For the social, emotional– I think football saved my life at least three times, like 100%. It’s good for your mental health. It’s good for your physical health, it gives you friends, it gives you teammates, it gives you joy, it gives you sadness, all the things. But, I think, in the context of Rwanda, we’re still a very low-income country. So anything– you can talk about mental health. But if you can’t feed yourself, what are we talking about. You know what I mean? I’ve been to places in sport interventions where we are talking to kids about mental health, but these kids have walked maybe two hours without shoes to come play football. And that’s not the norm. In Rwanda, most kids don’t have shoes and play and are clean and healthy and all this kind of stuff. But there’s still that aspect of, OK, if we can use sport to create jobs, then their social environment improves. If you can buy milk, then we can talk about the next level. I think it’s like a balance. We have to do both. There’s no point having sport without the social benefits of it. That’s stupid. That’s crazy. But we also need to think about sport business as an industry that can help us elevate economically. And, I think, that’s what traditionally, we haven’t done as a country. And now, the strategy is changing and focusing on sport business as well, which, I think, is a really positive thing. Like someone has seen and said, OK, you know what? Sport is an industry that we can benefit. And not just sport tourism, but sport business. I hope we start to see athletes come out of Rwanda in basketball, in cycling, and in tennis and football, in all the sports.
Leanne: And do you think the push for making a sports like economic excludes certain groups of people, as you were mentioning previously?
Nikita: I don’t think there’s enough emphasis on it right now to exclude. I genuinely don’t think we’re at where we should be when it comes to sport business. I think we are just starting in the last couple of months. We’re very good at sport tourism. And that has led to very good things for the country. But now we need to go to the next level up. And I don’t think we’re far enough that it excludes anyone.
The problem exists if we don’t start to acknowledge that. Right? But right now, we’re at the beginning. No– I don’t know if I can say this– but no Federation is doing sport development very well. And there’s an opportunity to do it. I think, now as a country, we’re all agreeing that we have not done good enough. And one thing we are good as a country is being honest about ourselves and being innovative. My hope and my fear at the same time is that we don’t just– we need to include everyone. Because sport is beautiful because everyone is equal. I can be super rich and I can be super wealthy, I can be of any gender or any sexuality or whatever. And ultimately, when we’re on the pitch, we’re competing for the same thing at the same time in the same way. I think those that are in power understand that. And I hope that all people are included in the process and the strategy.
Leanne: I definitely hope they do. I just find it very interesting because part of our research was talking to coaches. In Zarai Court, there was the U16 Afro Basket tournament, and we got to talk to the women’s basketball coach and the men’s basketball coach. And one thing they had in common was they said, the barriers to accessibility for sports is that you need to have money to be able to engage in it. They said, a lot of their players, they have rich parents who can pay for classes, for lessons, to rent a court for them to practice in, or they have a court in their backyard to practice in and stuff.
And meanwhile, the players who don’t have that money, the opportunities to practice and to develop their skills are much more limited. And the women’s coach, she was talking about how she has to actively seek out places where it’s free to play or very low cost or tournaments that are partially funded or something so that the players who don’t have as much money are still able to participate and to develop their skills and to be on the same level as their other teammates.
Nikita: 100%. That’s why football’s the best sport. All you need is a football. You can play anywhere and they make those football out of anything. Whereas, like, golf is an impossible sport for someone who doesn’t have money. It’s super hard. Yeah, I think it’s just something that we need to be intentional about. I mean, women are definitely excluded, that’s still a big issue. I don’t know if that translates into those who make it. You know what I mean? You could have the resources, have the money to practice whatever. But I’d love to see the numbers on, like, are those the kids that are making it to BAL? Or is it the kid that had to walk an hour to a court and practice and ultimately is scouted and found? And because I think talent wins. I mean talent and hard work. If you work hard enough, I don’t think we’re so exclusionary that you can’t find a way. Maybe you can’t practice at the community league as your core. But that’s not trying to make pro athletes. That’s trying to make a super cool community league, which is necessary to create amateur games as well. We need to create tiers in our sports. Ultimately, if you do play in a court, which now, giants of Africa have built so many, you will be seen and you will be scouted. It’s a balance. Is it really excluding them from the professional field or is it just not giving them convenience? Which everyone buys convenience. So as long as we still have the other option. I was just going to say our motto at Local Champions– hopefully, everything goes well. We’re going to do the Academy at Zaria Court for under 12s. We’re going to have 20 kids paying and 10 kids that will subsidize to pay their transport and to attend. I hope more grassroots and professional groups take a social enterprise model where they subsidize some. But most of the sports I know we subsidize some and then others pay, which is a necessary model.
Ron: I think it’s interesting, going back to the start of this part of the conversation, thinking of it as chicken and egg. The balance or tension between sports as development versus development of sports. And I think, so often, they’re put in opposition to each other. And it’s interesting to think about what would it look like to build an inclusive process from the beginning, which is certainly not what we have in the United States, but it might be an opportunity that exists in other places to think about what that would look like.
So that’s really exciting.
Nikita: And you just have to start early with those things. I mean, publish a report for us, send it as soon as possible. The most of these things are just required before the foundations are set. And I think we’re very early in our sport business journey, to be honest.
Ron: Nikita, I wonder if you can just share with us a little bit about your own story. How did you come to be here in Kigali, writing Local Champions, now taking a leadership in the Federation for women’s football? Just tell us a little more about how your own personal trajectory through all these issues and questions.
Nikita: That’s a little bit hard. I’m half Rwandese, half Dutch. I was born here in ’92. And then because of the genocide, everything, we left and then I lived in eight countries. I’m a third-culture kid, basically. I lived in eight countries growing up across three continents but finished my studies and my schooling in the UK, in London. Then I went to university. I did my bachelor’s, master’s, and got into working for an angel investor, in Switzerland before Fintech was a thing and before– what was it called – before remote teams were a thing, she was doing this already. Shout out to Brigitte Baumann, who was super influential in my journey. Then I traveled the world, was headhunted, run a recruitment company. My first company at 24 was fairly successful and then I became a change consultant, and then got into incubation, acceleration, social mobility, economic opportunity, and then started local champions. But along the way, I can’t remember a single memory without playing football. I don’t have any memory about football. People are like, when did you start? I was like, I don’t know in the hoop. I have no idea. And even the pictures of me, it was like a one-year-old, I’m holding a football. Football has always been my best friend, basically, and my way to get out of trouble. When I had a temper as a kid, I would just go out in the garden and play football, right? If I get in an argument with siblings, I go out in the garden play. If I get in an argument with parents, I go out in the garden. If I get in trouble in school or get suspended or whatever, I’m there playing football, right? But at the same time, I was always one of the only girls. So that has always been an issue– not an issue. I didn’t really see it as an issue. It was just a reality. So even when I was– and I was always playing in good teams, and I was probably always like a vice captain or a captain or something. Leadership has always been embedded in me. It’s not something I really chose. It’s just something that happens. With that, I played lin different tiers in the UK and helped start up some grassroots football clubs through my consultancy work and then through friends who are human rights lawyers and who work in FIFA and all this stuff. I found myself always empowering football clubs that I played for or that I helped found, and being the community lead or the fundraising support or whatever. And then while Local Champions was building this social mobility economic agency model, Sport England just called me– someone connected to Sport England and was like, hey, we have some funding to go out to community groups, we normally call you to see who to give it to because I used to be that in-between person, like, OK, that guy Tony’s doing a great job and Debbie’s doing a fantastic job helping the homeless, whatever. Then we had already incorporated Local Champions. I was like, you know what? I actually have an idea. These are the 10 groups I suggest, but also, can you give me some money to pilot this thing for mothers in football? So that was the first sport project that we did. Everything before that was mentoring and enterprise, and it was just super cool to see. When you can pay yourself to do something you love and help people, your life just like, OK, this is what I want to do. It makes no sense, why would I do anything else? I would always come back to Rwanda for three months of the year and spend nine in the UK. And then one season, I missed a penalty. And it was like the last game of the season. We needed to win or we’d get relegated, and I missed the penalty during play. And I would never forgive myself for that. I basically called my mom. I’m like, Mom, I’m coming home in like a week. I’ll be there for the usual three months, but I need a football coach because this is not OK. I was just really angry at myself. Then I ended up training here with a really good coach, and he was like, why are you training with me? You’re good enough to play with the Premier League here, it makes no sense. Just go train with the clubs here. Then I trained with the clubs. They were like, why don’t you just come? We’ll sign you. I come home, move home.
And at the same time, someone called Carmen, who just passed away last year from cancer, was working with Mastercard and other people and was like, Nikita, you need to come home. Your potential is too high. We need you in the country. And I was like can play football and get paid. And I’m being told to come help. So instead of just doing frontline services in the UK where there’s always a tension on belonging, I’ve lived there for 18 years on and off, but you don’t belong there. You don’t have any family there. I’m a bit of a lone wolf sometimes, but you get older. I was getting older. I was getting more injured. I couldn’t play football properly anymore. I was like, you know what? If I can move home… so then I spent a year shifting the model. So rather than be super hands on in London and front facing, can I train other people to do some of the programs? And, actually, can we do more consultancy work? And then I, basically, now live here nine months of the year and three months in London. And then I got involved in the team here. Then I started seeing all the issues that players have, and then I got upset. People are not being paid. People are not being fed. Contracts are not being honored. Nobody cares because it’s girls. Nobody takes women’s football seriously. So then, I was like, let’s create a project that changes this.
And that was essentially 18 months ago when I met Ron [Krabill] and Ben [Gardener]. I started it with nothing. I was like, I just want to change football. I want to change women’s lives with football, and I love football, and football’s great. Then I just followed the Local Champions methodology, as we always do, and it always works. So then, we’re here 18 months later, we have the Academy for Under-15 and Under- 12 and Under-8 [year olds]. And then we have the Invitational every year now, which is the national grassroots football festival. But we also help players with advocacy and branding and some kind of thing. We’re trying to put them more in media, we’re trying to do things, and then we have the gym program. We have different facets that will all turn into one program at some point. They’re just being built individually now.
Ron: I mean, it’s such a fantastic story from start to finish. And I think what you’ve built here is really amazing. I think maybe one last question would be, what’s your hope for your role as the commissioner of women’s football? What are you hoping to do in that space?
Nikita: It’s very easy. I want us to go to the World Cup. I said that when I moved home, everybody was like, you are crazy, you have no idea, this is impossible. So honestly, I just want to see the kids who are helping now play at the World Cup. I might just retire as a commissioner and join on the pitch for one minute so I played in a World Cup. I want to take us to elite competitions, which requires all the deep work. So that requires getting games broadcasted – the women aren’t broadcasted – can we create a free YouTube channel? Can we get a data league management system so there’s actual stats and stuff? Can we create an insurance health care opportunity for all players? Can players unionize outside the Federation – I’d advocate for it even though I, probably, am not allowed to. Can we make sure that player welfare is so good and then the environment they play in is so good that we actually compete against Nigeria, against Ghana, against Zambia, against Morocco, whatever. Because if we’re able to do that, the whole population will get behind this. Football is such a love sport, especially here at home. If we can actually be the pride of the population, that means these girls get a proper chance at life and then their neighborhoods get changed. Everything changes. Social mobility becomes a norm. So that’s the target right now.
Ron: Fantastic. That’s a great vision. Any last questions or comments?
Leanne: I guess my last question is like, what do you hope to take with you from Local Champions in your new position in the Federation?
Nikita: I will hire those who have lived experience. My commission is already made up of some of those that worked at Local Champions and some of those that have worked at the Ministry or whatever. Let’s elevate but also empower those traditionally not sought out in leadership roles. I think that’s the most important. And then the grassroots empowerment, if we empower the grassroots and connect to schools and education, everything changes. We need to be looking at these three-year-old girls as the next stars. And making sure that football is present in every school and every center and that we’re visiting them, we’re paying respect, all that kind of stuff.
Ron: Any last comments?
Nikita: Thank you for today. And let’s hope to work together more.
Ron: Thank you so much for the conversation today, Nikita, and for joining us as well, Leanne. It was really wonderful to have you on board.
Nikita: Thank you for having me.
Ron: Special thanks to everyone for listening as well. I also want to give a special shout out to Francis Gidiga who has set up our makeshift recording studio and served as a sound engineer for our podcast here in Kigali. To say a bit more about the Global Sport Lab, we are a new collaboration based in the Jackson School of International Studies at the University of Washington, Seattle, in partnership with my own school, Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences at UW Bothell. The lab uses the lens of sport to explore the big issues of our global world from migration, politics, inequity, racism, and gender discrimination to popular culture, democracy, human rights, the economy and many, many more. We’re particularly focused on the sport of football, but are known as soccer in the United States, during the run up to Seattle’s hosting of the FIFA Men’s World Cup in 2026. But we were interested in a wide range of sports, well-known and less well-known, from the grassroots to the professional levels and how they help us make meaning of the world. Special thanks also to musician and scholar of global football, Laurent Dubois, and WOTI Production for the use of our theme music, Merci Kylian, available on Spotify and Apple Music. If you would like to join more conversations like this, please reach out to us at globalsportlab@uw.edu. We look forward to hearing from you.
[MUSIC PLAYING – “Merci Kylian” by Laurent Dubois]
